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Highly cerebral, and unassuming, National Legal Adviser of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Dr. Muiz Banire, rarely grants press interviews. But when he does, he speaks convincingly and authoritatively on issues without caring whose ox is gored. In this interview with Senior Correspondent, TEMIDAYO AKINSUYI, he speaks on the controversy surrounding the zoning of the governorship ticket by Lagos APC and other sundry issues…
Congratulations, sir, on your election as the substantive National Legal Adviser of the All Progressives Congress (APC). What should Nigerians, especially those in the APC family, expect from you and other executives in the coming days?
Thank you. I really don’t know what Nigerians should expect from the newly elected national executives of the APC. You all know that I am a professional. My job in the APC is also a professional one; that is, to guide the party legally so that they don’t take wrong steps legally.
So, you expect that there will always be some litigation against the party in the coming days.
Of course, yes. It is a normal thing, especially in politics. In any area there is potential conflict, there will always be litigation. It is inevitable.
Looking at the defection of some governors and legislators to APC. Can you really say their movement has really improved the party’s fortunes?
I really can’t say for now because the whole thing is off and on. Today, some people will cross over to APC; tomorrow, they will cross over. So, the whole thing is not something reliable that one can comment on, say, whether it has improved the party’s fortunes. It is not reliable because if you are sure that these defectors are here to stay, then you can say for sure that it has improved APC’s fortune. But, when you see somebody here today, and because tomorrow they can’t get what they want, they disappear, then it is not really something that you can pinpoint and say yes it is a blessing or not to the party. I believe at times, it is best to know the number of genuine human beings, faithful party members that you have around you can look back any day, anytime and know they are behind you, than having a surplus of people that you don’t really know who is who. So, I cannot categorically say whether the coming of these defectors has really improved the fortunes of our great party.
There is widely held belief that the governors under the APC platform have hijacked the party’s structures. How true is that?
I really don’t think so. It is not true. That they had a hand in Odigie-Oyegun’s election is far from being true. He emerged by consensus. All zones, all layers jointly agreed that he is the best man to be saddled with the responsibility of APC. So, he emerged by consensus.
Do you really believe he is the best man for the job?
I have no doubt about his ability to deliver. If you check his pedigree, it goes without saying that he is a forthright, reliable and experienced man to do the job.
Former governor of Ogun State, Segun Osoba, and some federal legislators were conspicuously missing at the convention. Are you aware of why they chose to stay away?
There is a conflict in the state chapter of APC. There is no need to pretend about that. There is still a conflict going there, but hopefully, it will be amicably resolved by the new executive.
What exactly do you think is the problem with the APC in the state?
The conflict there is that there are two parallel groups laying claim to the party’s structures. And I believe it is not something serious that the new national executive cannot resolve. I believe a peaceful resolution will be reached very soon.
Governor Babatunde Fashola will leave office in less than a year. As a prominent stakeholder in Lagos politics, what qualities should we look for in his successor?
There is only one word to describe the qualities to look for in Governor Fashola’s successor and that word is ‘competence’. Competence, competence, competence. Is the person to succeed him competent enough to do the job? Although, as politician, I will tell you that we cannot divorce his rapport within the political culture from his competence. Otherwise, there will continue to be major battles. There are so many things that politicians by their very nature can assist in the art of governance. So, if you don’t have somebody who is used to them, who knows how to make the best out of them, then you continue to have some hiccups here and there. So, apart from competence you must look at that area also.
You are advocating for a competent successor, what then do you make of the party’s decision to zone the ticket to Lagos East?
I have answered that severally that to the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of such zoning. And I do not see anywhere where such zoning exists. Let me just give you a simple analysis. This is APC. APC is a new party. Nobody has become governor under APC. So, this is a new template entirely and as far as I am concerned, anybody from any part of Lagos, be it in the West, East or Central senatorial districts, can aspire to be governor and they are eligible to do so. If it is zoning issue, then I can decide to zone it to Mushin also. So, we will produce a governor from Mushin in 2015. It is as simple as that. I don’t subscribe to the issue of zoning at all.
Some people have also talked about the party’s decision to give the governorship ticket to a Christian. Don’t you think that is mixing religion with politics?
That one is even the most disastrous one as far as I am concerned. It spells doom for us as a whole. Because, let me make something clear here; it is the beginning of things that everybody is seeing now, the end of it nobody can actually envisage. For me, it shouldn’t be a factor at all. If you want good governance, what then you should look for is competence. And that has always been my own position from the word go. That if we are putting up anybody for any political office, look for the right person, the best man for the job to put there and not because such a person is a Christian or Muslim or even an atheist. It doesn’t matter to me. Now, that they are trying to introduce religion to this thing, where it will end, we don’t know. All I know for sure is that if we are not careful, it will get to a stage where people will begin to say, ‘I have to vote for this one because he is a member of my faith’. And rather than looking for the competence of individual, you start looking for which faith a candidate belongs to. And at the end of the day, what that spells for you is doom. Nothing else but doom.
There is a group in the APC called New Lagos Movement that recently protested imposition by some people in Lagos as well as the conduct of the congresses. Do you think what the group did was bad?
I read it in the dailies. For me, as a democrat, honestly, anything that will aid the promotion if internal democracy is what everybody must do. Because, the reality of the matter as I am talking to you is that, we still have people at all levels of governance in Lagos today who will say ‘I am going to aspire for a particular position because I know Muiz Banire, because I know Aregbesola or because I know AsiwajuBola Tinubu. And that is what is going on today. Even those people currently in various levels of our positions today: is it local government? Is it House of Reps? Is it House of Assembly? Many will say ‘Once we go to Asiwaju Tinubu, there is no shaking. Asiwaju will just impose us on them’. For me, that must stop. Honestly, I tell you for free, Asiwaju Tinubu will not be disposed to that this time around. Some of them have been coming to me pleading that I should assist and I tell them plainly that that era has gone. The only way I can assist is ‘go and mobilise for your primary’. It is as simple as that. Most of these people are so much indulged, particularly in this state, that they have forgotten the electorate entirely. They don’t even go there. That is why they have become alien to their constituency. They are not a product substantially of their constituents. There are people who have found themselves in various positions not by competence or merit, but by virtue of who they know upstairs. But that cannot continue. And the ultimate consequence of it is that in the process, we now find many incompetent hands and people who are alien to their community. So, as far as I am concerned, what they are doing is nothing that is offensive. I do not see anything offensive there at all. In fact, as somebody was even saying to me the last time, he said ‘They said the New Lagos Movement’ is being promoted by you’. I replied that ‘Unfortunately, they are not even being promoted by me, but if they approach me, I will encourage them’. Anything that we all must do to encourage internal democracy, we must do. Because, it doesn’t pay any of us. Even for my party, APC, it doesn’t pay us also. Because, rather than people going out to mobilise people to vote for APC, they come to sit in my house, or they go to Osun or seek somebody who has some measure of influence to impose them on the constituents.
I do not believe that this thing must continue and I don’t see anything offensive in it. In fact, I tell you for free, our constitution is so strict to the extent that if anybody commits any act against internal democracy of the party, that person should be expelled. That is what the constitution says.
Don’t you think some people are powerful than the constitution?
I am for the rule of law and democracy is synonymous with the rule of law. If people say they are more powerful than the constitution, then some people must be bold enough to say ‘No, nobody is above the law’. Because, otherwise, the result is simple- anarchy. There is nothing more to that.
There is a rumour that Asiwaju Bola Tinubu has endorsed a particular candidate as Fashola’s successor. Do you think that is fair enough?
I am not aware of that and I want to believe that I am of the first set of human beings to know if he has done that. I am not aware he has told anyone that this is the candidate they must vote for and I am sure that he is not likely to be inclined towards saying ‘This is the candidate’. You know there is a way anybody can use anybody’s name to sell any product. In fact, if I were to be a candidate, I would have gone to meet people and say I am the favoured candidate, I am the one anointed. Let people come and say I am not now. And I am sure the man will not come out and say I am not. So, anybody can say whatever he likes. I always encourage everybody to go about their jobs. When the time is ripe, everybody will go to primary and the best candidate will emerge.
But the Oba of Lagos recently endorse Akin Ambode as the next governor…
(Cuts in) A lot of people have said it that it is personal preference issue. You can’t grudge anybody over that. It is personal preference issue.
Some people in Mandate Group insisted that they want nobody but you as the next governor given the fact that it is only a trusted politician that can satisfy their yearnings. What do you make of that?
There are so many issues that are involved in that. First and foremost is the fact that, for me as a person, I am not inclined. Secondly, is the fact that I do not believe I should use my hard earned money on an agenda that is to a large extent gratuitous. When I say gratuitous, I do not intend, for example, believe that I am going to become governor to make money or accumulate wealth. So, why should I put all my money on such a project? But, if I see anyone that wants to put me there, then I will accept it, do my job and go away. But, that I will come out and spend all my money to woo people to my side, no. I will never do that. I am not ready to do that because I worked very hard for my money. For those with free access to free fund, those ones are free to throw it all around. Another issue is that some of these characters that are there now do not even know what it takes to govern a state. They do not even know the implication. I see some of them coming out saying they want to become governor and I just start laughing because I see them as comedians or clowns. For me, it takes a lot to move into that area. It is a complete sacrifice. It is not about gallivanting all over the place or enjoying the perquisite of office, which I know that some of these characters are out for. It is about doing what the people want. What is their pedigree? Some of these people don’t even have pedigree. In fact, I say it without fear or contradiction that they are just mere opportunists.
For me, I wish that the day they will interview them live, you will see how they will be goofing because they don’t even know what governance is all about. They thought being a governor is about having fleet of cars and convoys to convey them around and living in State House, all manner of hopeless things. So for me, honestly.
I think that is not on my agenda for now. I have so many things preoccupying me for now and I believe those are much more important and urgent for me to do. Above all, as it stands now, you need quite sizable amount of money to be able to motivate the substantially unenlightened electorate, either the politician or the larger populace the sad thing is that people are yet in our jurisdiction here to appreciate the nexus or linkage between their lives and their votes. So, easily they sell their conscience, will and everything. Some can even go as far as selling their children for money. For me, I am not the type that will feature in that kind of situation. I want a situation where if genuinely you want to serve the people, tell them your programmes and what you stand for.
But it is on record that you did well as a commissioner and many Lagosians applauded you. If the masses want you to be their governor, do you think a cabal can oppose you thinking you may be too powerful for them to handle?
I expect resistance from some people no matter how excellent you are. Even God himself that is our creator, some people still oppose him not to talk of we human beings. You will always expect resistance from some people in some quarters who will always feel that they cannot stand the guts of this guy. But, there are some fundamentals that I must tell you. The first thing is that only God empowers. So, whether there are one million cabals, if God ordains something it will happen. If God does not ordain it, even if all the cabals in the world want to ordain it, it will not work. If God say I Muiz Banire will be governor today, I will be. Even if I am sleeping in my house, it will happen. But, beyond that, is the fact that the people themselves own the power by extension to make changes happen. So, it is the hand of the people, which somebody like me will never go out of my way to seek.
But I believe money is not a critical factor, you have friends and people you have once assisted that can sponsor you if you really signify intention to contest. Don’t you think so?
You are right. That is why I said I am not ready to go out of my way to go and meet anybody. In fact, I have so many people that have been telling me that I should come out directly to contest. In fact, there are some sources that I will have money to battle anybody in this Lagos. But somebody like me will never go out of my way to do that. I will not. I tell you for free and I am still insisting it is not a child’s play and it is not a blessing that you are a governor. It is a burden, I know that for sure. Except if you just want to ruin yourself. If you really know that you want to go and discharge responsibility there, it is a burden. I am more of a free man. I enjoy more freedom now than if I become a governor.
Indirectly, to a large extent, you can say that most of these people are criminals. So, why do you want to leave your liberty and go into prison voluntarily? That is why I am saying I am not ready to go out of my way begging people to come and support me financially and vote for me. Even in my religion, and I also believe it applies to Christianity, leaders are always chosen by the people, they are wanted by the people. They are not the ones that put themselves forward.
Are you saying you have never aspired to become governor of Lagos State?
Not for one day.
What about the agitation of some people within the Mandate Group who believes you are the best men to succeed Governor Fashola?
I am aware of the agitation of some people that I should contest. What I tell them is that for every Muiz Banire, there are several other thousands of Muiz Banire. We have people that are equally competent within our fold. I can tell for free, equally as competent that we can put forward. I have identified some of these people to them. I told them that if only they can be united and put these people forward, we will get the same result.
Can you mention the names of these competent ones so Lagosians can vote for them?
No. I don’t want to disclose them to you. Before you know you just find their names on pages of newspapers. Let us protect them for now.
Senator representing Lagos West, Ganiyu Solomon, has said he will not be returning to the Senate. So who are you rooting for to replace him in the Senate?
People have not indicated their interest to contest. If they have indicated, I will be able to tell you that this appears to be the best aspirant or the most serious person. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has indicated interest.
We have seen people like Kamal Bayewu and few others who have come out…
Has he come out? He is not a bad man. I know him very well. I believe he is competent man.
(Courtesy Daily Independent)
